Had a conversation today and thought I would elaborate. When I was discussing squeezing oil from tissue I was referencing an ad I had seen long ago. Making Cod Liver Oil sound like fresh squeezed orange juice.
There are a variety of ways to move liquids from tissue and all of them are assisted by temperature and/or chemical. You can go on line and look up decanting, mechanical presses, grinding etc... and with these the additional steps that are required in fish oil processing. The warmer the temps the better job extracting the oil. I think freeze fracturing also will produce larger amounts of oil. This is fluctuating the tissue back and forth from freezing and heating.
Even fermenting the livers/fish is related to temps. If the temps are too cold it changes the fermentation and creates issue. The more suitable temps for bacteria growth the quicker to digest/ferment.
Reading the historical way to make cod liver oil i understand the need to standardize their work. I don't think they could control ferment easily as the infrastructure and temperatures might not have allowed for this. So based on description of the traditional cod liver oil manufacturing method this could be called wild fermentation (if temps could allow for this) or as they describe below putrefacation. Either way it is not controlled and can create issues especially on a commercial scale.
"Provided that not more than two or three weeks have elapsed from the closing of the barrel to its being opened, and if during that time the weather has not been to mild, the oil is of light yellow......there is little of this oil and fishermen do not take trouble to collect.....The livers are left to undergo further putrefaction. When a sufficient quantity of oil has again risen to to the surface, the skimming is repeated, and this process is continued until the oil becomes a certain shade of brown....."
I think the lack of controlled fermentation and the continual decanting is what created the need to create the oil processing industry. This is my observation over time.
Wild Ferment without good bacteria activity can create issues and the continued decanting and adding livers to a vat will compound the problems. Based on the historical description of the oil and experiences I think this is what drove steam rendering of the livers and other refinements to the forefront of the industry. We understand that fermenting a food creates a product that is fuller in nutritional value than the raw product. There are hundreds of thousands of molecular compounds in our products, most are not understood. But efficacy and results are real!!!
dave wetzel, oneill, October 30, 2014 at 7:59 AM
I think the lack of controlled fermentation and the continual decanting is what created the need to create the oil processing industry. This is my observation over time……
Along with these pressures of taste and odor, time would have been a even larger factor in processing decisions. Industry does not have months to make something. Turns and volume is how the world goes round. e\Even how we raise cows we are in a hurry… decisions in the industrial food model have nothing to do with nutritional value.
Honora, Christchurch, New Zealand, October 30, 2014 at 12:07 AM
Just to add to your list, the polynesian Maori of New Zealand also had a tradition of fermenting shark liver oil. Maybe they used it to keep warm and repel mosquitoes as they didn't wear a lot of clothing in pre-european times.
Jay, Georgia, October 29, 2014 at 11:25 AM
Thanks for the video and information. Just wondering.... how is the layer of oil separated from the other layers such as the protein or other deposits on the bottom? what is the filter mechanism to get the pure oil?
filter and centrifuge
kristin/michele, ca, October 29, 2014 at 8:00 AM
Hey, my husband read something about the fermenting process not being consistent and I wanted to see what you knew about this.
Fermentation is an art. many inputs that are out of the artists hands that can change the ferment/outcome. there are industrial approaches to standardize such as finishing, refining, absorbents etc… but that is not what this product is. we are more concerned about the natural outcome rather than stripping product to meet a standard. stripping changes the nature and healthful focus
Ramiel Nagel, Montpelier, Vermont, October 28, 2014 at 11:15 PM
Dave, you have a positive energy. Keep up the good work!
it is all of us working together…..harmony with purpose
Thank you, that was interesting. Perhaps the Roman soldier citation you are looking for is in the Nourishing Traditions cook book? I seem to remember seeing something in there about "garum".
Bob Anderson, Reno, NV, October 28, 2014 at 7:21 PM
That video got the job done, Dave. I was wondering: WHY cod liver? Is it just because of the Scandinavian heritage? Has anyone tried trout or salmon or shark or bass or ???
the oil content is not high enough to ferment have have a good product in the oil. but you can ferment and eat the fish if you find fermented fish good flavor. i'm sure the nutritional value will be superior to the fresh fish!
fermenting is the key!!!! just similar to how we view fresh cabbage to sauerkraut . we all know the nutritional value of sauerkraut is superior but we see nothing wrong with cabbage. or wine vs vinegar for nutritional value. the other fish can be used but the product is much more agreeable fresh. the cod liver is very unique!
Shirley, Appleton, WI, October 28, 2014 at 6:42 PM
This was very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to do it. And yes I would like to see more.
we are going to do another fun video in next couple wks using a variety of fermented foods that are not common in our culture. we will attempt to include taste testing and showing test results on the different foods.
Maria Atwood, Coloado Springs, CO, October 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM
Wow, blew me away that you started out by discussing the book of Tobias, naming me as your source, and the Archangel St. Raphael. and the story. Maybe everyone will go out and try to find that beautiful story. No doubt Tobias had to put the liver somewhere and possibly in his satchel and there is where it fermented. I guess we will never know but at least it does indicate in biblical terms that the innards of the fish were apparently healthful even then
Keep up the great work, superior product and may the good Archangel St. Raphael protect all your endeavors.
Thanks so much - Maria Atwood-www.traditionalcook.com
Now blogging at www.seleneriverpress.com - Sign up for their newsletter to see my blogs.
thank you for your dedication and taking the time to teach me!!! i really appreciate it. dave
We have 6 children, 4 oldest girls. How many fathers out there have daughters who are taller than them. It does not feel right looking up to your number three daughter. Our family gene pool on the male side is 5'10-6'1" Grandfathers and myself (6'1'). The grandmothers are 5' nothing,,, maybe 5'2" on tippee toes.
We had an office discussion on natural retinol and oxidizes into retinoic acid. There are a 160 known types of vitamin A and in time we have measured maybe 12 of them. If I recall retinoic acid is one that is in Fermented Cod Liver Oil. I think Retinoic acid is responsible for growth... or cell division. I'll try to research and post.
Anyway, back to girls. The first two girls are the short girls. Neither had the opportunity to take Fermented Cod Liver Oil during their growing years. Addie (18) and Carlie (13) are pictured here. Addie started taking the Fermented Cod Liver Oil at around age 12 and Carlie Started taking around the age of 7 +/-. Addie is approaching 6'2" and Carlie is already 5'10" and still has several more years to grow. Both look down on their 21 and 23 year old sisters. By the time Carlie stops growing I think she will be the tallest girl. I suspect my boys will tower over me :). I better be easy on them.
All 4 girls use the fermented cod liver oil for beauty, acne and hair, and they always know when they are not taking it as they will break out.
I thought I would share a few documents on the topic of cod liver oil through history. I have seen internet discussion boards with a focus attempting to describe micro nutrient x or y molecule in cod liver oil for several years. The effort to understand is human. But our understanding does not change nature. One could even create an argument that when man does change/alter nature it is not always good. These questions of understanding cod liver oil have been discussed for a very long time. Below are articles referencing fish oils long ago and excerpts from a couple books published on cod liver oil in the 1840's
The cod fish is as the cod fish has been and will always be short of man getting involved through such things as genetic manipulation or other efforts. The same with cod liver oil. It is as it is, no matter if there is agreement on this molecule, or this lab does a better job finding x nutrient, etc... These argumentative discussions do not change the fish nor the oil. It is as the fish provides assuming the effort to obtain the oil is within a natural system.
Attached are PDF's of a few recent test results that address the subject of oxidation products in cod liver oil. They were carried out by Mid West Labs, which is a leader in the US when it comes to testing, directing and working with US food safety, testing and labeling guidelines.
All our products are tested for other food safety markers such as PCB's, heavy metals, pathogens etc. All these tests come out negative and are randomly posted on our website.
The attached lab results were carried out when the lab was conducting standard pathogen tests and some amine tests. We run amine tests to better understand our fermentation process--these are not related to food safety testing. Different concentration and types of bacteria can produce the variation of biogenic amine concentrations in different products. Due to the difference of bacteria involving the fermentation, sausage will have its own amine panel, and ripened beef products will also have their own unique amine panel that assist in defining the product
We were asked for oxidation markers to be run for discussion but we routinely do not run these as they are not related to food safety but rather are used by industry in an attempt to describe flavor and odor.
Industry needs these markers so they can correlate a desired outcome based on input. For example, the higher the free fatty acid number the more difficult it is to hydrogenate an oil. Industry will segregate these oils and may determine a price on this marking point. We know that free fatty acids are healthful as they are formed by a natural metabolic processes within your gut. Free fatty acids are important for a variety of metabolic processes including sugar metabolism. Many fats you buy and eat already have free fatty acids. FCLO is no different. We have tested for these in the past but do not routinely test as it is not a food safety concern. As we ferment the livers to extract the oil without preservatives, there will always be a certain amount of free fatty acids in our product.
There are many ways to manipulate an oil to reduce these flavor/taste markers. They include adding preservatives, and exposing product to a variety of absorbents and chemical processes. These are not necessary with our products.
Below are three tests. Two are composite tests based on raw material the lab had in house and a third lot we were running for amine tests when we asked them to pull some oxidative markers.
FREE FATTY ACIDS: This is not an oxidative marker. FCLO ranged from 19.2 to 25.3 in two tests. We did run a test on pale cod liver oil for comparison and it came in at 9.64 (Yellow/pale cod liver oil is brand x. i had to buy one and test so there would be a reference point for discussion)
PV: This is a first stage oxidation marker. FCLO came in at from 3.9 to 4 . I have seen discussions on this marker and I think the aim in industry is under 10 for yellow clo. I have no test on pale cod liver oil to compare.
P ANISIDINE: This is a late stage marker. FCLO ranged from 9 to 16. The comparative pale cod liver oil tested 32
TBA: This is another late stage marker. FCLO ranged from .49 to 1.59. The yellow cod liver oil tested 1.15.
dave wetzel, oneill, October 22, 2014 at 8:31 PM
already had a question. what is pale/yellow cod liver oil? this is any cod liver oil you can find in the market place or store (Brand X) . I had to buy one and use as a marker for reference otherwise I did not know how to fully reference the discussion.